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• Dear friend It is not clear to me what you mean by experience in operations, Do you operations in a commercial or investment banking firm or with a large industrial corporation or retailer ? The answer can change In the first case, well I have never heard of people going straight into a PE fund, sometimes - very rarely - I have heard of people with a similar background moving into IB. Keep in mind that now people are forced to quit IB, so ... An MBA could help but again the market is going to be awful for the next 2-3years In the second case, it depends on the quality and variety of your operations experience. PE Funds, especially the ones focused on SMEs, can be interested in people with financial & managerial control experience. Large PE funds such as KKR are stuffed with previous strategy consultants and bankers. They recruit some very senior previous industrial managers but we are talking about former CEOs or CFOs. Good luck anyway

  Samantha 05 Feb 2009

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• Thank you for your post. Its the fund services side of a large IB (custody, clearance, etc.). Like I said, my end goal is working on live transactions at a PE or IB (I understand it won't be the NEXT step but several steps in the future). So given the state of that industry in the next few years, what can I do to position myself to get in during the next growth period? If I'm not being very clear please let me know, I'm a relative newbie and don't have the same perspective on the industry as some of you guys. Thanks!

  s.vp49 05 Feb 2009

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• Breaking from operations to IB or a front-office role in an alt. investments firm is extremely rare in good times. So it's probably safe to term it "impossible" in times like we're seeing now and for the foreseeable future. That's even more true of breaking into PE. An applicant for a PE job whose current role was in operations (back-office or technical work in a financial firm) would be not merely rejected, but ridiculed - even if they had glowing recommendations and promotions within their firm. To position yourself for that kind of leap, you'll need an MBA as your ticket in. It will have to be from a top-5 business school, and once you get it, you should list it first on your resume so it will overshadow your low-status experience as an ops person. Position yourself as a new MBA grad, not as an experienced pro who just added that credential. And if you can't get into a top business school, you might end up stuck in back-office even after the MBA. -- Jon Jacobs, eFinancialCareers News staff

  Jon Jacobs 05 Feb 2009

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• Jon: Thank you for your honest response, it was very helpful. Why do you use the word "ridiculed"? Why would an employer/recruiter ridicule someone else for wanting to enter a particular field? Is this just a product of the highly competitive nature of those industries? Also: How does a CFA fit in to all this? I definitely want to persue a CFA. Does it make sense to do it pre- or post-MBA? One last question: If ops isn't the best place to position yourself for IB/PE, what are ideal entry-level positions (besides IB analysts/associates)? Thanks alot for your answers, Jon, its a big help for me.

  s.vp49 06 Feb 2009

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• s.vp49: When I said "ridiculed," I was exaggering. An actual hiring manager or recruiter probably would be outwardly polite, regardless what they were thinking upon seeing an ops person seek a PE job. My purpose was to dramatize the caste system that exists in the investment world. Back-office, treasury, accounting and IT staff are almost universally viewed as unworthy to shine the shoes of the front-office types. It's sad but that's the culture. And it applies even to those back-office workers who happen to have the same credentials as front-office professionals (MBA, CFA, Ivy undergrad, whatever). That's why I said if you get an MBA you must put it at the top of your resume, rather than down below in the "education" section. I suspect a new MBA holder reincarnated from another life would be perceived differently than a back-office worker who just went out and earned an MBA – even if they're the same person. -- Jon Jacobs, eFinancialCareers News staff. (for the other two questions in your last comment, I'll post a separate response)

  Jon Jacobs 06 Feb 2009

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• Regarding your question about MBA vs CFA, we've published several previous stories, some of which have lengthy comment threads; try a keyword search for CFA or CFA MBA in our news section. Short answer: for banking and PE a MBA will open more doors than CFA. For asset management, a CFA could outweigh a MBA unless the latter is from a top school. The desirability of CFA might vary somewhat among employers, although it's universally respected by all except some jealous fools who post on chat boards. -- Jon Jacobs, eFinancialCareers News staff

  Jon Jacobs 06 Feb 2009

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• I can see your very abrupt answers there John, but i can understand where svp is coming from, after graduating its v difficult getting an ideal job specially in this market, i worked in ops for 20 months (i know i entered at a bullish time, but i thought as an engineer id do well in ops) and im leaving now that i understand the culture and perception of ops experience, although i have learnt alot in asset mgmt Ops but perception can be/is reality. I will sit the CFA in June, but do you think its better to work in boutique or a local firm back in the middle east in FO ? also when you graduate its v tempting putting a tier 1 prestigous name on your cv even tho its ops ........

  warwickgrad 07 Feb 2009

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• I think the other posters were trying to be realistic, but do not give hope. Just to give you some perspective, for post-MBA PE positions, some firms will only hire individuals who have PE experience pre-MBA (and a couple notable examples recruit exclusively from their pre-MBA associate classes). Here is the advice I would give: 1. Try to switch into a position where you are able to demonstrate investment judgment. IB is the traditional breeding ground for PE, but top-tier consulting (Bain et al) also is another pathway. Within IB, M&A or Lev Fin will position you best. 2. Focus on getting into a top tier MBA. This means GMAT, strong undergrad, outside activities where you demonstrate leadership etc. 3. Be an active personal investor. I cannot tell you how many individuals I have interviewed who do not invest personally. This will give you experience making investment decisions (albeit in more liquid securities), but many of the lessons are transferable. 4. Be aware that the industry is contracting right now rather than expanding. Also, understand the long-term fundamentals of PE (i.e. will the 2/20 model continue, Obama going to hike taxes on carry).

  Anon 01 Mar 2009

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• 5. Be aware that PE is NOT as glamorous as it appears. Senior partners work long hours throughout their careers. Your work never really stops outside of the office. Industry is becoming more structured like IB. To summarize, moving to PE is not impossible, but it will take you many years and serious commitment. If that is what you want, I wish you the best of luck. However, if I were you, I would really be sure this is what you want, before spending 5-10 years of your life trying to get in.

  Anon 01 Mar 2009

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• Anon, Thank you very much for your insight! It is truely helpful. Going back to your recommendations for positioning myself: I am currently in operations at a large firm. Clearly I will not be going into IB anytime soon considering my lack of ivy league/experience/economy, etc. Where (if anywhere) in an ops/back office area of a company can I position myself best? Can you name any roles in particular? Or just investment judgement generally? In what case would it make sense to jump to another firm? I also appreciate your candid insight into the PE industry. It appeals to me because of the deal-based/case-by-case nature of it, if you know what I mean. I don't mind long hours either. You also mentioned that you have interviewed people before. Are you in PE right now? If not what industry, generally? Thanks

  s.vp49 05 Mar 2009

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