US
I have a dilemma on my hands, and would like some advice.
I’m an investment banker in the Gulf who has suffered from the recent turmoil in the markets.
My career began four years ago at one of the largest Islamic investment banks in Kuwait. In 2007, I received an offer from a well-known European investment bank to come and work in London. Unfortunately, however, the job fell through after I had relocated to the City.
I was then out of work for a total of seven months. After a large number of interviews and the withdrawal of three offers from large institutions, I finally landed a private equity role at one of Australia’s largest investment banks. I loved it, but after a few months I was made redundant due to market conditions.
I then returned to the Middle East and found a role as an associate in a boutique. That job has now been lost, too.
I am now thoroughly sick of the ups and downs of this industry. I love the work, but am fed up with the instability. I want to settle in one role.
At this point, I have two future job options and am uncertain which will be the more secure. One is as a senior VP at well respected Asian bank, as head of origination in corporate finance. The second option is working for a small start-up private equity company started by some friends in the UAE; the remuneration here is less, but still good.
In most circumstances, I would go for the first option. However, Asian markets are now hitting recession and I won’t start in the role until the middle of December. Am I in danger of being disappointed again?
Yes you are, you want to play the investment banking game? First of all consider yourself lucky, that many offers coming from a local Kuwaitan unknown bank. Play the game by the rules… in all contracts you received you know that your approach to employment should be flexible. Working in the industry means high risk. Stop moaning like a loser, if you want stability join government or a Forbes500 company!
Headhunter,
the only loser here is you-pushing people around for money and not able to do more than make shallow statements. Hope that the turmoil weeds some of you out cause you ultimately are an irrelevant part of the value chain
hate filled
Take it easy. Headhunter has a point in that there is increased uncertainty in IB careers. I’m not sure what you do but your phrase “pushing people around for money” could be applied to most people in IB as well. Why are you so bitter?
Headhunters- no comment on your useless post, hatesHeadhunters said it all.
Dear Anon, let’s face it: yes, you might be disappointed again – there are no safe places anywhere anymore as we are in the most unstable market experienced for a very long time. Having said that, and for what it’s worth, my view is that i would rather go for the newly created PE firm with friends rather than the established bank. Potentially riskier but sounds like much more fun and you are at least master of your own destiny!
I sense you don’t have a reality check, you are too naive, if I were you I would be worried, with your attitude I don’t think u will survive in your firm and get any new employment through headhunters or in the financial industry at all!
Wow, some very bitter people out there. Which I guess should not be too much of a surprise given the ongoing pain. Anyway Anonymous, taking your explanation at face value, I would say stick with PE job. Investment banking activity is already slowing in Asia and will slow even further over the next 1 – 2 years. As long as your PE funding from LPs is secure or as secure as can be in this environment, I think you have a better place to i) get some security over at least the investment cycle of your current fund and ii) really grow something. Again I reiterate this is based on your LPs being able to fund their capital calls. As can be seen over the last month or two, this is becoming an increasing problem for many PE funds.
I wonder how two faced hatesHeadhunters is? I’m sure he has used recruiters in the past to get him to where he is in his career… although if he is rubbish he probably hasnt ever been headhunted….either way… HH’s are teh brokers of the industry their asset class.
Dear Anon,
Totally agree with pb, now is the time to be master of your own destiny, plus you get to avoid all the petty office politics which come out in these times…
Totally agree with “Hate Headhunters” too. I hope the recession weeds you guys out, like it will to the Estate Agents!!
Take the “senior VP” position as “head of origination”, that’s if it’s for real. Someone of your limited experience would not normally have a hope in hell of landing a job like that. No offence, but on the basis of that job description, it sounds like you tell tall stories and get found out post landing the job. Good luck anyway, I do not wish harm on anyone….
If I were you, I would spend the next couple of years building your technical skill set in a glamourless corner of the industry, so when the upturn happens, you are employable at a reasonable level. By the way, on the surface, the PE post sounds promising in this respect except that I spend my working days weeding out useless PE firms from good ones in that particular corner of the world, and the ratio is about 20:1. Look at who are your colleagues in that firm (ie what are their creds), who are their financial backers, their LPs, their client base, their deal pipeline (and relationships with those targets), their org structure, before making a move.
Yes, i think you should take the PE role, ummm, don’t believe you are qualified or experienced enough for ‘SVP Hd of Origination’. Wise up.
It’s interesting in the world of risk assessment that protagonists have failed to assess their job security risk by remaining in the Corporate environment.
Change should mean assessing your own skill sets and simultaneously evaluating self employment.
Start ups are risky but Franchising always works with a proven business model.
Some Coaches assess your situation and actually introduce you for free.
Problem solved.
think outside the box /lets go blue sky here…3 and a bit years experience….take either of the roles offered…with such a chequered past( tho not your fault) you are lucky to have options..many far better qualified people in London would kill to be in your position…my money is on the small private equity job…you are far from being up to the other job i am afraid at this stage in your career
Head hunters “teh (sic) brokers of the industry their asset class” . I guess its always nice to ramp up ones dubious selfworth. Perhaps a mutated breed of photocopy slaesman wpuld be a better description…
On a more serius not, I have come across a few good ones, with strategic non-contingent based relationships , out of the box thinking driven by an understanding of finance. However others, a sizeable number i hate to say, seem lacking both on the candidate and client side A better understanding of the markets and products is needed. Of course in a bull market, where there are more vacancies than good candidates, week “brokers” will preavial. I am not so sure in this market though…
Ok firstly there is far too much bitterness going on, that’s not the point (you see you’re all losing your heads again – that’s your problem you know and a HUGE disadvantage to the industry). Some of you don’t believe that I am qualified enough; you can not judge someone’s performance or background by a few small paragraphs. Kuwait gave me a lot the pipeline up there is very strong and we closed a lot because of the liquidity. Some of you are right with regard to the technical skills, but I have worked with some directors that can not even put a basic debt model together. My structuring skills are very good. I also did not mention what I was doing before banking which also adds value, also take into consideration that I am from a well know family (relationships) and have Arabic
I am so sick of hearing people’s hatred campaigns and sheer bitterness. Some directors I have worked with in the Gulf ex bulge bracket were appalling (even saying things like we can analyse two sets of audited statements for the same period “its only 2 or 3%” difference JOKERS, that happens a lot in the Gulf) OH and here is another good one putting the same risk premium on a valuation in IRAN to say France HA HA HA HA….. As far as telling high stories well no … not at all. I think there is a lot of jealousy.. and if the above is read correctly I left the position in Kuwait I didn’t lose it. As far as head-hunters I agree and I disagree as management consultants they can be very useful and valuable in the right situation but occasionally can be a waste of time and money. Please guys can we use spell and grammar checkers. Good luck in your markets.
Additionally can we just stick to the point. I did actually ask, which one would you go for? I did not ask anyone for comments on whether I am worthy or not, I know my own self worth. Apologies for using capitals in my last comment, it was emphasis rather than shouting. Thank you.
Good to see such a collegiate response to the hard times you guys in banking are now facing.
Anonymous, I suggest you go for the PE option if you want a longer term role. The origination role will be great for the next year or so but will tail off, and you may well find yourself in the same position as you are in now. Bonne chance.
Thank you for the comments. I think you do have a point, Ombanker. However take a look from this angle – lets say we are all doomed even PE if we can not get the funding I have dealt with so many proposals in the past 6 months even in the Middle East everything is on hold. If both did not work out due to market conditions I feel I would be more employable from the large FI and could branch into sales or marketing because of the origination aspect in say another industry say IT etc. Let me know your thoughts and thank you for the comments.
My advice in the current market environment is to go for PE. Banking sector is going through a complete identity crissis and is not the place to be in the next few years. On the other hand with the recession coming there will some good investment opportunities for PE firms. And its much more fun and interesting to be an entrepreneur in a small company than just a very small fish in a bank!
Very important, don’t listen to any HH! They don’t know what they are talking about, the reality ios that they have absolutely no idea on what banks do and are definately not people to ask for career advice. Through my career I have dealt alot with HH and have very little respect for them.
HH have a very short sight view of whats going on, they are normally uncapable of assesing a candidate’s skills for a job, and nobody in banking respects them. Remember they are mere proceesor, they get the cv from the candidates and then send them to the banks, that’s all they can manage to do.
Anonymous: venture capital may indeed suffer due to restricted funding, but this does not mean that there will not be opportunities to turn around businesses which are overbloated or need restructuring. The variety within PE itself is useful whether in boom times or bust. The challenge presented and skills acquired would be, I think, excellent experience.
You do make a valid point regarding the possibility of moving around in a large organisation. That said, in these times, with whole teams being cut at a time, I think that it may be a bit too much of a gamble to join a bank and hope to move should the position not work out.