US
I remember the last crash, privatisation, and yuppies! Supposedly that’s all in the past, but I have my doubts. We’re retracing our steps: retro is in vogue and the TV program “Life on Mars” is now the window on the future. Nationalisation is hurriedly gaining momentum, employment is going down! Property is going down! High street brands are becoming extinct. Are we mid cycle yet? When will we hit the bottom? We are definitely over the precipice, and in freefall, but for how long?
My late Uncle, an accountant, always maintained that bankers were thieves with little purpose except self promotion and personal gain. It’s a shame he’s no longer around to see his prophecies come true. He was proud of my achievements, but not of my chosen profession. And I have to agree that the sole focus for much of my career has been to make the bank’s shareholders and myself increasingly more prosperous.
So what do I do now? I am at trader! I thrive in volatile markets. Nothing is immune, and all is tradable!
Personally, I am selling my house to a downshifter and plan to reinvest at the bottom, probably in a property of a fallen colleague. I’m hedged in Europe and invested in cash only instruments and selected government debt. I am a prudent and risk aware trader, remaining liquid and versatile at all times.
With years in the market behind me and minimal personal leverage, I think I’m covered. But if it all goes ‘pear shaped,’ my fellow traders, what will you do next?
Social service benefits are a no-no. You’ll receive less than your weekly bar bill. Alternatively, you could try and get back in via the middle office. Or worse, you could try and get back in via the back office.
Neither may sound appealing, but in this market open mindedness is essential. Our business is diverse and adaptable, qualities you must take on if you’re to survive and prosper.
I know because I am speaking from experience. Despite a very profitable trading record, I was made redundant in a past downturn. I re-invented myself and created a new profitable book within a market I hadn’t traded previously. Remember, all markets have a common denominator. Knowledge of one can be applied to another.
I have also learned not to listen to recruiters. Ten years ago I was advised by one self-important recruitment agent that having lost my job I would never get into trading again as I had no degree. Through perseverance and direct approaches I got another position soon after.
Do not listen to anyone telling you “No.” In my language, “No,” means “Yes.” Anything is possible! Believe this and remain long sighted. You posses the abilities to survive and to grow in this new world. The short sighted will fail. Their doubt is your gain!
Is it still possible to become a trader without a degree or even still a degree in a business/finance related area but not strictly russell group?
Is it still possible or are those days of hiring based on personality and ambition well and truly over?
a friend wants to know…
traders of the world unite!
If you were such a “prosperous” trader with such a “profitable” trading record then why don’t you use some of those abundant reserves of cash you made over the years and trade with your own money so as to perpetuate this success you have known… or is it that like 95% of market makers you were just good at reading prices of broker screens whenever your salespeople asked you for bids/offers?
You must be 50 years old, maybe back in the day you can become a trader without a degree. Today, without a degree you wont get into an investment bank as a trader…that is a fact…maybe a broker…maybe a “put your own money in” prop house but even in the good times, no degree=no trading job…fact…unless you have the ability to work from back office to front…but even that is now very hard to do… youve needed a degree for back office jobs for a long time…
But we have to pay traders bonuses! Otherwise they’ll go to our competitors!
Traders – you all looked smart in a bull market… reality is that there was a lot of chaff amongst the genuinely good guys… this is exposed now to an extent
M&A Banker is correct. When the market was on Viagra, many just piled in and did well. Now the market’s on Prozac with the ocassional ‘riser’, many have been shown to be up to the task. No room for mediocre traders. They run out of money and get canned.
Some of the so-called traders you see on news shots are actually execution traders – they take calls and place orders for others.
Other news shots show brokers shouting down phones and at each other. Contrast this with equity traders, who tend to be more staid. Good traders trade pretty boringly!
Nice optimistic article. Don’t really understand why if you have a wealth of experience, you don’t just get going in a prop shop. Land of milk and honey I would have thought. Unless you would prefer to be raking in a salary/bonus as you are not that sure of your skills…and you need to be given edge by a sales guy trading at a spread from mid for you. Thats not really trading IMHO.
I would have thought banks would be trying to get hold of traders, rather than canning them, to exploit the fat bid-offers. The people the banks don’t want are the high yield~MA types who need access to bank lending facitilities to do their business.
M&A Banker..1 man springs to mind Fred Goodwin (sir) “the greatest banker of his generation”- M&A what a joke , who pays your excessive fees?…you guys piggybacked of the trading desks and cheap credit..to structure ridiculous deals with ridiculous fees….so afraid you don’t look too smart now either…..
Shall we all just admit it was a big scam and become teachers? 6 month course. Should be a doddle. As soon as I’m qualified I’ll whack a kid in the face and get 12 months off on paid suspension. Hopefully by then markets will have picked.
JGF – agree to an extent. Especially if you are talking about M&A bankers who sat in financial sponsors teams (essentially executing transactions for PE houses) – they did indeed ride off the back of cheap credit. In more traditional sector coverage roles I think there is still more longevity, and the need for a more considered approach, when advising clients on acquisitions / disposals compared to someone riding a bull market in, for example, oil. M&A / Corporate Finance had its period of stupid exuberance – it was called the dot-com bubble. This time round, bar what I concede was the PE led debt binge, the rest of the business is still far more sound than Tony Trader and his positions in CMBS or whatever….
Recruiters laughed at me because i got BBD in my A-levels, and a 2:2 in my degree from king’s. I applied for every single job advert published and read the desciption of the ones that replied. 2 years later, i’m trading at GS :)
Oh.. and my two best friends, who BOTH got 2:2… UBS and Merrill..
Anything.. anything.. is possible.. with the right attitude and energy.
in fact, i discovered that some recruiters were telling me that employers were turning down my CV, without ever putting me forwards for the roles available.
I took ANY job available in a strong global company. learned very quickly. worked very hard. and made it very clear that i am looking and able to take more responsibility. if that didnt get me anywhere, i worked my a** off even harder, and moved on to the next company. I worked harder in the company i was planning to leave just to make them regret losing me when i did :D
i’m not the biggest trader in the world, and am relatively junior.. but to be here 2 years after graduation with those grades and no internship experience makes me proud.
Hey what is the problem? A trader losing his job has no worries.
He can trade for himself or provide trading education service.
I had lost my job as a hedge fund trader, now I am trading on my own and providing online trading education service.
“As soon as I’m qualified I’ll whack a kid in the face and get 12 months off on paid suspension.”
then from the teaching profession…it’s Goodbye, Mr Chips!
Moodi proves M&A Banker’s point. I am sorry but if you got those grades in your A levels (and A levels are not what they used to be!) and a 2:2 from Kings (not exactly the bastion of academic prowess) then it shows you were either bone idle or just not very able. If you were the former then that is inconsistent with what you say about working hard (and if you were so ambitious why were you not trying hard at school / university?) – this leads to the logical conclusion that you are probably not that able… yet you are given license to trade on the bank’s books… and we wonder why we are where we are today…?
Moodi I really dont believe your story. You have to explain us how in the current market environment you got an interview at GS without having an investment banking background, having a 2.2 and no internship experience. I know GS very well and they wouldn’t interview someone with that background for a back office job. As Luvas rightly said if you are so motivated for a career at the top why didn’t you work hard at university? why didn’t you try to get internships in the summer?
That just shows a lack of motivation and ambition and the intellect to get marks above 2.2. Not the skills GS is looking for…