UK
Lloyds TSB seems to have grasped the nettle when it comes to offshoring IT roles, to the extent that it’s actually bringing Indian technology contractors to the UK at the expense of local roles. Understandably, it’s incurred the wrath of the unions, but it is really that unique?
Last week, it emerged that Lloyds was introducing a blanket 15% rate cut for its UK IT contractors, and now the Lloyds TSB Group Union has exposed the "outrageous" practice of bringing in tech Indian workers at a lower rate.
Mark Brown, assistant general secretary, says: "Not content with offshoring 4,500 jobs, the bank is now flying in hundreds of Indian staff to work in the UK and take the jobs of UK-based staff."
The union claims Lloyds is the only major employer to do this, but that might not be strictly true even if most firms aren’t quite as overt.
As Nigel Roxburgh, research director at the National Outsourcing Association says, it’s fairly common practice that once UK roles have been handed to an offshored service provider for the firm to then fly over Indian workers to the UK, often at a lower rate.
"I’d be highly surprised if no other bank was employing the same practice," he says.
He says the saving is still "significant" with the daily rate often being as much as 50% lower for an Indian worker compared to a UK counterpart.
RBS, for example, has a contract with Infosys Technologies of Bangalore and in March it was reported the firm was carrying out IT functions in Scotland for the bank. UK contractors feared this was a precursor to more outsourcing.
After a brief hiatus, offshoring appears to have picked up pace again anyway. UBS is said to be pondering moving 4,000 positions to India over the next two years.
In the case of RBS, it is a good idea to outsource to India. IT function at RBS is singularly useless.
Very simple move your account to another bank. Lloyds has been always unethical anyway. Let then collapse in 6-9 months without customers using the 6 levels of indirection rule.
I have to say that the lies permutate, The Inidan contractors are stealing UK jobs full stop. What is worse is that the UK gov “British jobs for British workers” is granting visa entry for these people without any checks on the “QUALIFICATIONS” stated or even experience. What is the biggest lie is the cost. When you have had TATA etc for sometime doing your IT work you will realise how much it costs to fix the absolute mess created. The banks ignore completely security and flout like ignorant armpits the Data Protection Act. What becomes the worst case scenario in two years when the bank is on the brink of collapse will be NO TAX PAYERS MONEY BECAUSE NO JOBS NO TAXPAYERS WORK IT OUT YOU DUMB “NO PROTECTIONISM IDIOTS”
A classic example of how some positive effects Asian countries could have comparatively.. back office jobs start shifting towards countries like India, China, Philippines and East Europe
There are 40000 – 60000 people on ICT visas currently in the UK. To get a ICT visa the skill must be unavailable in the EU (not just the UK). There are 440 million people in the EU. I don’t think it will take Sherlock Holmes to figure out that Lloyds are not the only ones at it and that the whole scheme is massively abused.
Offshoring for cheap labour is the 21st century equivalent to slavery. Taking one culture and saying they don’t deserve to be paid as much as another because their econemy is less developed is offensive. The only reason they are cheaper is because they don’t have th3 same legislation to protect their rights, no social welfare, no nhs, no green power etc etc. Exploitation pure and simple.
1) Lloyds isn’t a charity.
2) If your job can be replaced by an Indian without qualifications maybe it wasn’t that good a job in the first place.
3) Look at the shoes you’re wearing: are they 180 brogues handmade in Northampton? Or are perfectly adequate 50 Oxfords made somewhere in the Far East? British IT jobs for British IT contractors but not shoemakers.
The bottom line is unless your job requires taking a client to lunch it should be done by a computer or a bright young thing in India. Accept this painful truth and learn to do something that requires either your unique personality (teaching, comedian, dealmaker, relationship manager), physical presence (policeman, hairdresser, waiter) or be very, very good at what you do.
Everyone is protecting their workers e.g Germany and France.
Its only our U.K govt that does not give a damn. The downfall of our great country has already begun (by the way, I am an asian born and bred in the U.k).
This is fair play. If Lloyds can find a cheaper option than using UK contractors, then good on them.
Too many UK contractors have been earning too much money for far too long. This is exactly what the UK economy needs.
Does not work that way mates…What had Britishers done in 16th and 17th centuries in Far East countries..Ask yourselves…was never right…Now it is other way around and it starts hurting you…upskil and upgrade yourselves is the only way…Kudos to LLyods..
The problem is that UK politicians are completely beholden to big business.
I have just worked for 10 months on Germany and the difference is striking, there are many small businesses, and their politicians seem genuinely interested in the country; they have consistently been the worlds biggest exporter in terms of money earned, (China makes more small plastic things as opposed to BMW’s, or precision engineering).
All our elected scumbags are interested in is whose board they will wind up on, and give big business a free hand in return. The thought of starting a small business in the UK is laughable when you look at the obstacles put in your way, wheres the big boys seem to be allowed to take over whatever they want and exploit employees in any way they like, including flooding the country with cheap imported labour.
I find this weird. In this global economy, when developed countries want access to emerging markets to exploit their market potential, it is only fair that they reciprocate. Except, when have the english/american ever known what is fair.
As Kloot correctly says, you should no longer expect a job just because you are British or otherwise. The trend is changed, move to India/China to work, being British you would get paid higher anyway, just because you can speak authentic “english” english at the call centres.
the world is flat.
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, but the one most responsive to change.
Err.. didnt UK start this whole fire of globalization?
To refresh some memories.. it started way back in 18th century with the industrial revolution, and it destroyed the textile industry and the overall economy in India and China, which used to be the two richest countries on the planet till about 200 yrs ago. During this time, Europe prospered.
So, now that others are doing unto u what u had done to them, y act like a crybaby ?
Some days you shall be the pigeon, some days you shall be the statue.
As it is, protectionism in EU and North America is already rather high, (esp compared to their level of development). A cow in Europe gets more Money in way of farming subsidy than a poor fellow human in Africa.
Curbing flow of human resources (bad for some here) only makes Industry relocate the whole operation at some later date (bad for more here).
So, please .. stop crying. Start Trying.
Try to compete. The better IT pros in Europe can compete comfortably in the global marketplace.
@ asian-Thanks for your input David Brent
@Haha U are welcome, Gareth.
In other related news from Britain today,
1. Black cabbies protest to block Heathrow
Protests for “fears for black cab drivers who believe that they will lose valuable trade to cheaper rivals”.
Oh My God!! How dare anyone provide cheaper service to the customers!!! This is totally outrageous!!
2. “British roles for British actors”
For an English actor whose roles have included the half-Spanish, half-Ukrainian-Russian son of Pablo Picasso, a French detective, a Spartan statesman – not to mention a certain Irish-American Baltimore cop – Dominic West is oddly territorial when it comes to casting.
Old Etonian star of US TV series has accused Russell Crowe, Johnny Depp and Renée Zellweger of “stealing our great heroes” by playing British characters.
I am not sure this is uncommon.
CMC Markets have been doing something similar.
They have been making severe job cuts through out IT. On the other hand they employed the service of Thoughtworks consultancy who do heavily rely on bringing in staff from India. On the same day that permanent UK staff were being put at high risk of redundancy and being sent on garden leave, staff were arriving in the office from India (fresh off the plane) . And for several weeks more staff arrived fresh from the airport with their luggage.
When a former company outsourced work to India and brought staff over for training they, as the client, ended up paying for the flight, full-board hotel accomodation and daily travel expenses of each person.
From what I hear salary expectations in India have increased. Between all the middle-men I wonder how much are they really saving.
The recruitment conusltants are also feeling the pinch as a result of this.
All I can say is be very very careful checking working permits etc. Many of these have been falsified.
Wise up Dave, these Indian workers are payed in India (plus expenses which are tax deductible), so don’t pay British tax or NI. They don’t spend money locally, as soon as they set foot in the country they are entitled to free NHS (many use the opportunity to have babies) , the only people who benfit are the international IT companies exploiting weak HMRC visa rules (HMRC IT projects run by Cap Gemini actually have a new mantra of hiring Cap India workers, without letting prospective line managers so much as phone interview), exactly what the country needs? You are either misinformed or an idiot.
Lloyds is a charity, oh yes it is, you have a short memory. I seem to remember coming cap in hand to the general public. Now they (and the rest of the banks) thank you, by charging exhorbitant rates for loans, even when the base rate is 0.5% and paying nothing on savings. So you lend them money, and the banks pay that money bank by stiffing you again. Nice work if you can get it. To add insult to injury, LBG is giving jobs away outside of the UK, in direct contravention to the governements assertions. To all who say this is just good business, well, when it’s all outsourced and we’re all either on the dole, and or in much lower paid jobs, how is this going to effect the macro economy, and hence how much tax you’ll will have to pay? Madness, pure madness.
In addition to this, where do you think the good workers in places like India go, yep, the UK, USA etc, where they charge exactly what us onshorers charge, and what do you think is left in India, that’s right, the dross!
All front office financial trading should be outsourced, these guys are way overpaid, and have amply proved they are useless. They need to upskill, and downshift their expectations, most, probably have no relevant qualifiactions, and must expect a much lower quality of life in the future, especially if you don’t speak canonese. God, the crap some people talk.