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Is it just me, or are perceptions of the middle office changing? When I first decided to take my current role in the middle office, friends and readers of this column alike were skeptical. I was warned that stepping into middle office would be the end of the road. But as things go from bad to worse, people are warming to the fact that having a job is better than having none!
As for me, I’ve put my head down and focused on the job at hand. It was very tempting to reach out to the front office and network my way back aggressively. However, I decided that I would settle into my job first.
I spent all of Nov & Dec 08 working hard. I had a good team, working hours were awesome, the work wasn’t repetitive and it gave me good visibility amongst the front office folks and the clients. After a few torrid months, I was surprisingly happy.
When I returned to work in early January I took my first steps towards my front office goal. The pace of the middle office job allowed me to take breaks during the day to meet with my contacts in the front office. I was keen to side step the mistakes I committed at Lehman viz looking to be recruited by the desks that were taking the bank down!
After spending a quarter of my daily pay buying coffees for my contacts, I narrowed down my options to two high volume flow desks. The middle office job came to my help again: I spent the early hours of the morning shadowing the traders and then started my regular middle office work around 9am.
However, in the past couple of weeks I’ve started to question my strategy as the atmosphere in the front office has become increasingly bleak. When bonuses were announced at the end of last year there was a momentary uplift – front office folks talked of quitting work to travel, learn Chinese, or teach Accounting 101 in small Universities off the southern coast of Spain and Italy! Now, such talk has been completely forgotten.
On the high flow desks, volumes are now a fraction of their levels of September last year (not the best benchmark!). Salespeople are spending more time in online chat rooms than talking to clients. Rumours are floating around of another round of layoffs and groups are splintering so that it’s each man for himself.
The environment in the front office has now become so cold and stiff that I have stopped shadowing the traders. Instead, I am spending more time with my middle office pals. In a storm, a haven is invaluable. There seems no point in rushing to the deck only to be washed overboard yet again.
dude, in all your article the underlying theme has been “Out of Lehman – how do I get back?”…..
I think you have no idea how things work in that industry, especially @ Front Office level. Just to be sure: what clients are you networking with? I think you are talking about MO people from counterparties… It is hilarious to see that all the money you spent in coffees for your FO (1/4 of your daily pay as you mention) is now worthless investment.
Oh and yeah… when things go back up again and when you will attempt to regain the “hearts” of FO folks, another young and eager MO would have probably replaced you in their “heart”. Knowing the type of personaliies who work in MO, I would say that you really belong there….
Man I love efinancialcareers – so many funny articles
as we said, end of the road buddy
I absolutely disagree. For front office calibre people, middle office is worse than unemployment. Once you’re stuck in the middle office rut its a challenge to get out back into a front office position – given your last position is what’s most important, what hope do you have getting back into FO in an MO job when your competition will have a FO-only CV? Not a problem to have a few months off travelling etc.
The stigma of middle / back office is certainly not gone just because its now harder to get a front office job – in fact I’d say the stigma is worse than ever before, because its now seen as an obvious 2nd choice, an admission of defeat.
Nonsense. Exposure to other parts of the (rapidly diminishing) industry never hurts. If asked why you took the middle office role reply “It was the biggest downturn in 100 years and I needed to eat”.
Have to say – all the “front office” bravado on this page is typical of the alpha jockstrap control-averse attitude within the industry that has resulted in the current situation. That said, the career trajectory of the author as he describes it WILL end in only one location – and that will mean missing out on the biggest bonuses when the upswing begins. Aim for a CFO-level position within the next five years fella; then launch a cutting edge investment boutique with your FO buddies and, when the time is right, short the renminbi. Result = vindication!
have to say all the FO people who put comments really live up to the saying that bankers are *ankers.
jonnybgood..i couldn’t agree more. i don’t get this need of showing off all the time. even if i agree with some of those FO views and probably come from a similar background myself, i do not like the way they come across, arrogant and emotionless. not all bankers are like this, but after 10yrs in a FO position i must admit it happens way too often. if only successful people could be more humble…bankers would not have this reputation. shame i have to be pigeonholed as a heartless b*tch because of them. there are nice and humble bankers out there…and most of the time they happen to be women.
You know, I couldn’t care less if you pathetic people call me a “*anker” or whatever. Losers dissed me at school for working hard, they dissed me at university, and they diss me now – and look where they are – shelf-stackers, unemployed, back/middle office etc. If anything incurring the wrath of such people is a great stimulus to be a success.
You’re just selling stuff dude, it’s not like you create anything valuable. Entrepreneurs are the cool guys that create real value for the economy, and a good number of them really become wealthy, to a level most investment bankers can only dream of. You’re selling products to other banks, if you had had a different education you might be selling hoovers. That’s your skill, it’s not something particularly striking, or rare. I worked in FO and people are exactly the same as in other parts of the business. If you think you are special, you’re wrong.
It was funny to see these young investment bankers spend around their bonuses like there is no tomorrow, now the whole thing is pathetic. You should know that eventually you will get fired, I advise you to start preparing for what you want to do in your 40s, and put some money aside along the way.
FO Superstar – nobody should “diss” you for working hard, they should “diss” you for being a pathetic moron who judges himself on his paycheque.
Learn to show humility, respect and how to treat other people and then perhaps you will become a valuable addition to society, maybe even a “superstar”.
I am 100% with FO Superstar. The other guys are making laugh, bunch of MO guys or salespeople talking crap. You people reminds me of that environmentalist on the BBC TV show who wanted to show that it is possible to make money in trading, if i recall he quit after 2 weeks. Financial industry is full of “morons”, “arrogant”, etc… live with it or change industry…
The comment about “creating value” makes me laugh even more! try to read about private equities. Do you really think they care about creating jobs?
Im FO – but I’m ashamed of FO Superstar. I interviewed a grad recently who tried to put on the same bolshy attitude. Doesn’t impress. In all walks of life you get tos*ers. Banking is no diff.
Oh dear, “Front Office Superstar” – of course you get dissed! Enjoy. Your. Life.
Can I please get a job in a middle office where the work isn’t repetitive and there is enough time to spend drinking coffee with my mates? In about 13 years in the City, I’ve yet to see a MO like that; mostly they’re too busy correcting the errors of people like the FO Superstar who don’t stoop to checking their work.
I bet FO superstar can’t get a woman to save his life based on his physical attributes and personality, ha!
“For front office calibre people, middle office is worse than unemployment.”
Huh, I didn’t know FO people were so dumb. So sitting at home for 18 months is better than a MO job?
“Once you’re stuck in the middle office rut its a challenge to get out back into a front office position – given your last position is what’s most important, what hope do you have getting back into FO in an MO job when your competition will have a FO-only CV?”
I never knew FO recruiters give more credit to sitting your ar*e at home for months than still being around the action in a lower capacity.
“an admission of defeat.”
I guess, looking at the opposite option, being unemployed is a great sign of victory then.
Well done, smart Front Office Superstar.
Some of these comments are silly
I moved from FO to MO when I was cast aside in pointing flaws in the structured finance models and accounting (UK and Europe, not US – inspte of some insisting that te accounting solution worked – hah!).
Now I am back re-making FO with the experience I gained in MO. Wait till you see the new bonus structures!!!
Mo hater: you have no idea what an entrepeneur is if you think private equity people are entrepeneurs. Private equity = people who buy and sell businesses.. Entrepeneurs=people who start and build real businesses.
anyone who claims to be front office and is posting during hte hours of 8 – 11 is just a poser trying to kick people when they are down.
I find this dialogue really amazing. I have been MO risk management my whole career. As good or better education and honours than most of the FO lot. I have had a varied and interesting career and financially done quite well too. In my experience, I have met many FO staff who I really respected but most were quite mediocre and no better from a commitment or intelligence point of view than MO staff who never get to leave at 5 pm! The arrogant attitude expressed in some of these comments is jsut why in the current situation bankers have developed a bad name amongst Joe public.
The majority of the comments by FO people are typical of their ilk across the entire industry. Look what your kind has done, yet you have the nerve to be arrogant? Where was the skill of FO people when they couldn’t decipher their own structured products and resorted instead to write down the value of the loans altogether? Most of you (not all, as I have come across many intelligent ones, all of whom were humble and polite) are overconfident loudmouths.
I work in ECM and hate all the FO ppl down at the Fixed Income dpt just as like the stupid pratts at the Credit department who messes up the swaps on the transactions all the time.
I hate traders and sales ppl because my comfortable lifestyle for which I worked 7am-11pm everyday has collapsed because of their foolishness, yet I have no reason to feel guilty or ashamed and I do not. Wheeler-dealer types, Masters of the Universe, let them all burn. Advisory will inherit the earth.
The reason why so many FO sales-trading types here are bashing MO is simply because only loosers worked there before. It makes economic sense. Since the FO comp is better, you go to FO. If you re not good enough you settle for MO or BO.
Don’t start telling me the joke about lifestyle because I do not how much money I should be receiving if I had to have somebody like myself shout at me and berate me every single time prospectus docs were 15 mins late.
MO and BO folks used to be losers. Currently of course due to the market dislocation good ppl ended up there. But just because you joined and represent 5% of MO office positions now, does not mean being in MO is the new black. Simply ridiculous.
“I bet FO superstar can’t get a woman to save his life based on his physical attributes and personality, ha!”
Ahahaha. If only you knew the truth…
I totally agree with all the FO comments, but need to emphasize its not about the prestige and pay only… its the nature of the work in the MO/BO checkign settlements, checking netting, liasing with ctpies for collateral, checking trades… its really really boring , menial moron work….
Totally different than a decent FO where you meet clients either f2f or on the phone (sales), do trades (trading), structure products and explain & sell to clients (structuring) or work on pitchbooks , financing strategies to advice a client to do a deal
I have been in both, unfortunately being tricked to the BO hell, luckily got out quickly and regained FO status, luckily time spent in FO was 4x as MO but I still got pigeonholed , I would advice nobody ever go to MO/BO in a bank b/c of long hours, horrible work , no learning experience, no prestige, no $$$
I agree sitting on a couch for 2years/traveling for 2years is not good, i would advice to take a 2 yr mba, join management consulting or jion any team in a respected forbes 500 firm e.g. exxon, J&J, Unilever (yes all those teams are MO but still much more respected and much more interested work than the hell in MO/BO at a bank
To people who put comments on here like FO dude and FO superstar, attitudes like yours are what make banking a horrible place to be – have you always had an air of superiority and liked looking down your noses at people, or has this developed over time? Get over yourselves
been there – it smells like you were in BO to me, can be boring but some people are more suited to it. Middle Office can be interesting depending on the responsibilities given in each bank, a lot of continental europe middle offices get very involved with FO work and MO is a natural place to start before progressing.
All the FO bravado is usually there to make up for a lack of intelligence, half the skill seems to be making yourself look good and saving your own skin, not admirable qualities.
The intelligent FO guys don’t bother poncing about and are the likeable ones, but the job is still in sales at the end of the day – there will always be people who survive on a reputation they don’t deserve.
I agree Brandon at some banks in Europe middle office does get involved in FO work, e.g. structured finance portfolio management teams
I am talking about MO in a very prestigious US bank, working there > 90 hours per week , no respect at all, doing shit work being tricked there , i can tell you its hellish..
I do agree MO/BO is suitable for people who don’t have any ambition at all… I would stil take a finance, marketing , logistics job at P&G over risk mgt or treasury at GS/MS
FO Superstar – I think your first comment cuts to the chase really doesn’t it? A lifetime of being bullied by the bigger boys at school and (one presumes by your pathetic need to brag about your sexual conquests online) ignored by the girls? Your type is all over the place in banking – only went in there to prove to their old school associates (I would say friends, but you probably didn’t have any) that you’re better than them now because you earn more money. Sad thing is, that they’ve moved on. You haven’t. They don’t care. In fact, they probably don’t even remember who you are. You, on the other hand, are doomed to live a life trapped in your own adolescent insecurities, constantly thinking about the names they called you and all the parties you were never invited to. And no amount of money or prestige will ever cure you of that.
On a totally different note, there seem to be quite a few ppl here who were tricked into MO roles, thinking they were FO roles. Happened to me once- the guy hiring me swore blind that I’d been sent the wrong job spec (it certainly wasn’t the ‘job’ I’d interviewed for!!). Anyone care to elaborate on their experiences here?