UK
Former banker Kerrie Keeling left the City in 2003 to set up A Woman’s Touch, a property maintenance company run and predominantly staffed by women. The company now has a turnover of more than 1m, and Keeling was recently cited as one of Management Today‘s 35 Women Under 35. For the benefit of anyone who’s thinking of getting out of banking, or who’s already out of banking and thinking of doing something else, we’ve asked Kerrie a few questions, below. She will also be available between 28 and 30 July to answer selected questions from readers.
Are we right in thinking you worked at JPMorgan?
It was JPMorgan and Citigroup actually.
What did you do there?
I started in derivatives in the back office at JPMorgan before moving into an emerging markets role in the middle office. I then moved to Citigroup as a relationship manager. It was sales and marketing basically – I was trying to flog the bank’s products to clients.
Interesting that you moved from the back to the front office – was that hard?
It was very difficult. I had to move company – once you’ve worked in the back office, you get branded. I could see it wasn’t going to happen at JPMorgan, so I applied speculatively to Citigroup where I knew they had a few vacancies in the financial institutions team. It worked to my advantage that it was full of stale pale males – suited men in their 50s – I think they quite liked the idea of a young girl joining them.
How long were you in banking for all together?
Seven years.
What was the hardest thing about leaving?
Walking way from the salary and bonus. Two things made me want to go: disillusionment with the internal politics of American banks, and the fact that I’d always wanted to run my own business.
When was your eureka moment?
I had some tiling done at my flat and the guy was awful. He was a typical builder: called me darling, left cigarette butts in my sink, and tried to charge me more than he’d said it would cost. I saw an opportunity for a building business run by women which would turn up on time and stick to budget.
Did you leave the bank to set the company up?
I started while I was still working.
Wasn’t that difficult?
I had to be fairly discreet. But I didn’t actually have any customers – it was more a question of setting up the website, etc.
How far advanced were things when you left?
Before leaving I sent out an email to my very large network of friends and colleagues, put in a link to the website, and told them they’d all get a discount. A lot of my first few months of work therefore came from former clients and colleagues, and a large proportion of my current clients are bankers and City people.
What advice would you give to other bankers/ex-bankers looking to set up a business?
That there’s more money to be made in a down market than an up market. Also, you don’t need backing. I’ve always funded myself organically and put my own money into the business.
Kerrie will be available to answer your questions between 28 and 30 July inclusive. To ask her a question, enter it in the comment box below. Please note that we’ll only publish questions that are answered.
You go, girl!
Fund yourself and rely on no one.
Did your banking experience actually help in any way to set up your company?
Yes most definitely – in many ways. Firstly I had a great network of potential clients – the ideal clients – cash rich time poor who valued good service. Secondly I had developed good sales and negotiation skills, and thirdly I had a good level of confidence in dealing in “male dominated” environments and using my gender to my advantage.
What tips would you give to women entering the male-dominated banking world?
Don’t be intimidated – you’ve got there on your merits, you thoroughly deserve to be there, and just because you may be outnumbered should not be a problem – it can even work to your advantage. Don’t be afraid to shout if you feel you’re being unfairly treated – this applies to men and women of course, but sadly seems to happen more commonly to women.
It’s easier to tackle a problem at the time it arises through the correct routes, than months later through an employment tribunal. I think the world of banking is a world of opportunity – and now I can look back from the outside I would definitely say that you should try and appreciate everything it offers while you are there – including the salary and bonuses! Do some investing – one day you’ll look back and wonder where all the money went!
Would you ever go back to finance?
Absolutely no chance – I’ve moved on too much and have seen how exciting and challenging life can be in a small company – plus I think I’d be an absolutely nightmare employee now so no-one would have me anyway – I’ve got so used to making my own decisions.
Did you not feel any ethical conflict setting up the business while still employed by the bank?
No, I only spent about 1 or 2 hours a day setting up the website etc – I was averaging 14 hour days 6 days a week for the bank, so I didn’t feel taking a couple of hours “break” was unethical in anyway.
Realistically, are you on the same money you would have got if you were still in investment banking?
Not yet – I expect that in the not too distant future I will be on a par with where I would have been had I stayed in banking – but the other issue to consider is that my business has a value (depending on how it is valued) of between 500,000 and 5,000,000 (I prefer the latter!), so although my salary isn’t comparable, my net asset value, as the majority shareholder, is greater.
Do you still work similar hours?
At times. I tend to have earlier starts now as it’s nice to get ahead on the day before everything else “kicks off” – and there are often late finishes as well. A lot depends on what I’m doing – my days can be so varied, but if I have a lot of meetings then there tends to be a lot to do before and after, whereas if I have the luxury of a day at my desk, I can achieve more in terms of crossing things off my to do list, and don’t work as late. I do still work some weekends, either catching up, doing more strategic work when it’s nice and quiet, or doing something more exciting – for example this Saturday we have a stand at Pride in Brighton – so technically we’re working, but in reality I think it’ll be rather a good day out!
Thanks for sharing your inspirational story. I live in Lagos and we have mostly been unaffected by the global storm in banking, if anything busess is booming as a result of more money coming into emerging markets. But the business opportunities here are immense!
2 questions:
1. What advice would you have given yourself before you started out, knowing what you know now?
2. How much working capital did you have saved up before you started? 6 months? 1 year?
1. What advice would you have given yourself before you started out, knowing what you know now? Don’t wait too long to get expert help – it’s really important to know the things that you’re not good at, and get someone in who is good at them – don’t try and do everything yourself – outsource effectively. Also – when recruiting, don’t just go for people like you – make sure that they have complimentary skills and experience and can fill gaps in your capabilities.
2. How much working capital did you have saved up before you started? 200!! Literally – I just bought some overalls and a few tins of paint, borrowed my dad’s tool kit and used my old car – I’ve grown organically and only invested as I’ve been able to afford to do so. It means growth has been slower than it could have been, but I have no hefty debts and have maintained complete ownership.
kerrie, i have always been afraid to take risks,from a sure to come salary at the end of the month,to unexpected downturn of the business,how did you overcome the challenge or you never thought about it,i mean you are a risk taker?
I suppose I am naturally a risk taker – which can be good and bad – as can not being a risk taker – I think you just have to work with what you’ve got. I miss my salary and the security, that’s for sure – but then really how secure is as job in banking these days anyway?! At least now I’m in control of my own fate much more so than when I was at the bank. I also learned very quickly to live on less money – it was actually quite good fun to start with, but now I’m ready to start reaping the rewards of a successful business. My plan is to build enough net worth that I can live a luxurious life off the income it generates without digging into the capital – well you have to aim high don’t you?!
Did you have help in setting up your website, I mean did you get help from a web design company or did you set everything up yourself from scratch?
And if so, how did you manage to do this?
Yes I used a friend of a friend called Gary Hughes from Spear Creative. He is very reasonably priced, offered great design advice and was able to act very quickly. I still use him today and he has grown with my business – the website has been updated numerous times over the last few years, and he is also currently working on my new personal website http://www.kerriekeeling.com which will be live in a few weeks – it’s something we’ve developed to cope with the media / PR side of what I do and the talking opportunities I am given – as well as giving me the chance to say a bit more about who I really am. There will be some nice cheesy childhood photos on there too, so it’s worth a look!
Is this “A Woman’s Touch currentl under liquidation”? I noticed that Kerrie Keeling / Hanafin is listed on two companies with similar names as director. Companies House says that A Woman’s Touch LTD owned by Kerrie owed 30k to A Woman’s Touch Construction, also owned by Kerrie!
The Annual accounts show a business with profits of less than 10k per year. I smell fish…….