AU
If there really are so many jobs to be had in Australia’s finance sector, why is it so hard to land one?
A few weeks ago we ran a story suggesting Australia’s finance employers are struggling to find enough candidates to fill their roles. Not true, according to your comments. Plenty of you say your skills are being turned down by overly choosy Oz recruiters, who just aren’t putting enough effort into training the next generation.
I have been working overseas as an analyst and had hoped to return to Sydney to find a similiar job. Unfortunately, I didn’t have any local market experience. Didn’t know that Aussie employers are so narrow minded about seeking people with transferrable skills. Still looking for a job after a year.
I recognise that I might have to start at a more junior level to get local experience, but NO WAY, they can’t handle the idea that I am willing to take a step backwards. It’s really myopic here.
agreed on employers being myopic about local experience. whilst it hasn’t affected me directly, i have heard of similar cases
I can understand your frustration, and don’t be fooled that it just your lack of local experience. I worked here for over 4 years in IB and returned a few months ago. Although market knowledge is certainly a component, I believe the lack of lateral thinking is the killer. I’ve also worked in London and Hong Kong where your skills are embraced and opportunities (particularly HK) result, but here they focus on what you don’t have as opposed to what you can offer. With this mindset there will always be plenty of jobs because the perfect candidate is already employed!
have also worked in London and HK, but never thought I faced the lack of lateral thinking prospective employers
Either the headlines are completely wrong or I am living on planet Mars, because it appears to me a load of garbage that there are so many jobs available. It is clearly a myth. I have an incredibly good CV, with international experience, at very senior levels, yet cannot get any traction here. I know I can move to Asia and relatively quickly, get placed.
This is how ridiculous it is : I have actually put together a very detailed business plan, and approached no less than a team of 12, to form a business in my area of specialty. We now have 3 private equity backers and look set to incept the business with no less than $200 million assets under management.
So let me get this. I can do something on that sort of level, employ all the staff, set up all the systems, get the huge amount of capital commitment required, yet apparently not one of the narrow minded institutions can see my value?? Give me a break!
It gets worse (well, funnier). One of the institutions I saw had some mindless ‘rating scale”. Since I was not apparently at the top of that, they put me on hold, while they sourced other candidates. As it turned out no one got the job. They are just ‘tyre kickers’.
In my organisation there are a lot of vacancies roles where managers have been looking to hire for months and have met people that have great skills but they have not been hired.
Its rare that an employer actually sees the value of hiring someone who is a reasonable fit with potential, getting on with it and 3-4 months down the road you have a fully functioning team member.
You will probably hire them at a lower cost and the new hire is really motivated about the scope for personal development, they are happy and the rest of team enjoys the benefit of a workload being spreadout, less crazy hours, a happier team.
If only there were more people like that and less who were scared and worried how it will reflect on them if the new hire doesn’t function 100%. Is what we do so complicated that a bright person just the same as you a few years ago can’t learn it? I don’t think so. Lets not be so pious. I wasn’t born with the skills I have now I learnt them on the job.
A part of the fault is with the recruitment companies. I recently applied for a position to which I was more than qualified for only to be rejected within 24hours. I contacted the person involved with presenting the position and explained to them that as the advertisement was presented I was perfect for the job and that I wanted a fairly good reason as to why I was not being presented to the client or I was going to present myself to the client (it wasn’t hard to figure out who it was) and she would likely not receive any commission at all. It became very obvious from a brief conversation that the young lass that had been handed this task had absolutely no idea what she was talking about.
Please we need more proessionalism in the recruitment industry and it needs to step away from many of the cheap sales tricks that seem to be the norm.
I totally agree with all of u above. I have 10 years of working experience and tried knocking on doors of a recruiter who had contract/part time work hoping that it would be easier to get in only to be told that i should try for a graduate role!
Its not just demeaning that overseas experience is not recognised but to start again at graduate level after working in IB for ten years is really ridiculous. Is there a way where we can write to some authorities to highlight this problem?
Especially for people without the domestic experience, its not that we are not capable but we are not even given a chance to proof ourselves even at the most basic level of being granted the first interview when in our resume/CV its clear we have the necessary skills. Isnt banking all about globalization and international practices?
This myopic and narrowmindedness attitude need to be highlighted. Why bother inviting skilled migrants to Australia? Its an irony that while the skilled Australian bankers are moving to US and Europe, Australia is left with a vacuum where there are people who are skilled but lack local experienc and therefore not given a chance at all.This is just SAD!
I’m auditing at a Big Four company now, and as a fresh grad am looking to immigrate to Australia next year. Having heard all these horror stories, it looks like I might become an overqualified sanitation executive…
Dear Janice, I think it would be best if you can ask for a transfer from your current firm to the one in Australia. Otherwise, u will spend months being frustrated of having the skills but not landing the job because u dont have “local” experience.
Take Heart all, it happens to many returning expats or great international candidates from london, europe, asia and US.
Sydney, shamefully is the worst at this myopic behavior. If you are a returning expat or have great international skills you will be more welcomed in Melbourne than Sydney. Melbourne’s heritage is of embracing international visitors and takes the majority of skilled migrants over time.
Sydney is backward and its a shame so many people don’t know the real sydney IB’s which are corrupted by rugby GPS high school directors with no international experience or education who are afraid that if you return with more skills, you might take their job in time. Myabe they are right. Their skills are outdated, their networks are old and not integrated into asia, US and europe and its only time that you will break through.
Hang in there, be positive, make new friends.
My other advice is try boutiques which might value your skills more than dealing with big institutions or IBs with small minded HR and executives.
Good Luck !
The Sydney market generally seems not to value overseas experience, which is unfortunate and doesnt exactly remedy the massive ‘skills’ shortage we have here. It is frustrating as a recruiter but ultimately unless a more proactive approach is adopted across the industry, whereby this parochial thinking is fazed out, the situation will not get any better than it is presently. In fact, with demand high and supplies of Australian skilled workers low, this narrow mindedness could be said to perpetuate the strain. Ultimately as a recruiter, I aim to find solutions to my Clients needs. With time and trust, the ability to educate is heightened but to be frank, if you are starting out as a recruiter, your reputation is based on how well you deliver exactly what the client is looking for. Unfortunately in this predicament, you either accept that singularly you cannot change the prevailing view and therefore do your best to fulfil the wishlist, or you take chances, by supplying skilled candidates from overseas, and lose the business. Its a harsh conundrum as I hope that I am not the only recruiter here with a moral conscience, but it exists, and without effective reform it will stay.
I agree with many of the comments above, and my experience is that after 8 years in Investment banking in London and New york, i emigrated to Sydney for a better lifestlye encouraged by the continued ads for skilled migrants so i got the points and migrated and have to say on the professionally front it has been disapointing – although we all need to appreciate the market is a lot smaller outside of fund management, but many employers seemt to wnat every box ticked which in a skills short market is riduclous maybe some are threatened by thosie with bigger market / international experience – i dont know, all i do know is that its a really difficult market to crack more difficult than the major financial cpaitials, and the crazier thing is how Mac bank is seen as a world breaker from the average Austrlian’s eyes – candiates and recruiters, when in the rest of the world its not even a top tier bank, although fair play to MBL for its success in Oz !
That mentality of “tick every box” is very Australian and stems from the fact that “on the job” training is virtually dead and buried in Australia. As an example, my bank requires me to have FOUR pieces of paper (degree, post-grad degree and two professional certifications) before I am allowed to trade. This is not a guideline – it is a rule. Basically, HR says we need “smart people” on the trading floor, and they define “smart” by the number of pieces of paper you have accumulated.
I also agree strongly with the perception that management is very defensive in Australia. I don’t think this is a particularly unique personality characteristic – it is just a factor of the small market. Why hire an 8 if you are a 7, and you only have 10 customers? You only need a 3 :-)
I think if Australia, and Sydney to be precise, is going to truly compete on a global scale with the financial capitals of Asia and the World in general, it needs to encourage and nurture international talent. It stands to reason, that by being more open minded in terms of seeing ‘potential’ as someone put it, in highly experienced and skilled candidates from overseas, real quality can be added to the output from this market.
In line with globalisation and the mass movement of talent across the world, Australia needs to adopt a realistic approach to organic growth, and as a subsequence of this can enjoy the added value international candidates with global experience can bring to what is still a comparitively immature market. Being ex Morgan Stanley in London, I got to see first hand inside my team and other divisions, the substantial impact skilled candidates from overseas markets made, to the firm and its business.
I agree strongly with all the above comments, especially the second advice from Hayden — try some boutiques. Quite many of them do recruitment themselves. At least you may get a good chance for a 1st-round interview to show yourself, sth. that may not be shown in your CV.
To be honest, I am very disappointed about agency. Either no response or reject within 24 hours, no matter what kind of position you are applying, even the lower position that you wish to kick off ‘local’ experience. We do need more professional recruiters.
Also, people are always talking about the bubbles in the share market. What about the job market? Ads flying everywhere, people still sitting at home.
Yes Janice
I worked with a foreign Big Four audit company, as a qualified professional, ran a successful company for many years and have the appropriate Australian Professional Conversions, and local (Australian) post graduate finance diplomas, too. I’ve not received a polite answer to literally hundreds of applications… not even a hello! If ever, I’ve had to hammer at the doors of rather curt and often inane recruiters.
Perhaps I’ve been mistakenly lulled into a false sense of my own worth by the approaches of packs of sometimes relentless head-hunters who actively examined, mined and explored my potential. Here, I’m dirt! The best **desperate** job offer I’ve tentatively received, had a gross salary that would not cover the taxes in my ‘ex-Ozzie’ vocation…For me Australia = a BEEG mistake… Please, beware. Please, be warned! Please, be cautious. The Australian lifestyle ‘ option ‘ can be a gold plated brick!
Immigrating here, for me, is regrettably, an awful mistake.
Interesting Times we live in?
When will HR people realise that the correlation between academic pieces of paper and trading success is -.9 …..? Currently the top 100 traders in the last survey have mixed backgrounds and mixed educations. Interestingly One of the top Prop traders in Asia has a High school education, The highest ever return on a book post WWII is held by a chap with a trade qualification (as in manual work). One could write on thesis on such a subject with examples to illustrate all distributions of trading success vs formal and non-formal education.
Education and intelligence is far greater than that which can be defined by paper from an educational facility.
Personally I have many met many mediocre ill-educated people with lovely pieces of paper, or the right club membership. The mavericks and icebrakers are the one who move the boundaries of society forward whether it be in custom or trading. The Mediocre and HR people in our society want only to maintain the status quo, which by its nature is anti-evolutionary and anti visionary. Australia fast becomming the white trash of Asia to para-phrase a former Asian leader. Australia – “Able” Talent is an ASSET!
As an executive recruiter across IB and IM in Sydney, I have an extremely tough job. My clients want me to conjure up exact fits to roles and they want these people yesterday. Compared to London, I find that they rarely look outside of the JD and lose out on great candidates. I also believe that Australian companies do not know what they want and procrastinate on candidates, taking ages to interview and make a final decision, and consequently lose out.
What also amazes me is this demand for Australian experience. Of course it is good to know the market but surely anyone can see that experience in London, New York or Hong Kong completely outweighs Australian experience. One important question remains: who are Macquarie?
Can only totally agree with every point.
I have over 15 years of experience [global] roles, multi lingual.
It is a real eye opener here, the lack of integrated vision, view of the world is extremely limited. The mindset is very inflexible, a very narrow minded view of the world. Not an attractive or realistic market for many ex pats wanting to come home.
They talk about the ‘brain drain’ leaving? the best talent being welcomed elsewhere? Is it any wonder the bright ones wanting to return have an extremely if not impossible task.
I agree with most of the people, it’s also a problem i see in the education / migration system, I came to Australia as international student, while we study are degrees most of the businesses don’t want to employ us because of not having the Australian residency. Therefore we don’t have the local knowledge. Just because we got a degree doesn’t mean we have local knowledge.
Once we graduate we can be Australian residents. But when we go for jobs we need to start from very low positions due to not having local knowledge. Most of my friends have gone to different jobs out of there study filed. So people would not be disappointed.
I agree with Arnie’s comment. It’s very tough for international students.
Although Australia is crying for skills shortage, many employers/recruiters are not willing to take graduates who don’t have two or three yrs experience. Transferable skills are only worth 2 cents for them. You may hear Big 4 recruit non-accounting graduates for accountant roles, but there are many accounting graduates desperately get their foot on the door.
My experience with recruitment agencies wasn’t successful either. We’ve got to understand the agencies is paid by the employers to seek for ideal candidates, that’s why they always act in the interests of the employers, not the job applicants. I have gone through the same disappointment when agencies didn’t get back to me or they simply placed me in temporary accounts job. Once you know how the mechanism works, perhaps you should know you can’t soley depend on agencies for job search.
I got my jobs through networking and it always works, it doesn’t matter WHAT you know but WHO you know. Have faith in your ability, ultimately it’s your right attitude and soft skills get you to the top. Good luck everyone.
I came to Australia 3 years back…..spent like $30000 to get my Masters Degree. In Accounting from sydney. I have applied for more than 200 jobs at graduate level. i believe half of the jobs are fake and recruiters just give em to develop their database.
I was topper in my university at sydney , in India i was vice president of my college and President of social club…worked as credit officer for 1 years and assistant accountant for 1 year after my B.Com. But here in australia i am Bar Tender (nearly 1.7 years) same job which i had when i was international student and was working only 20 hrs a week, but now i am permanent resident.
but no use – i got chance to attend interview of PWC but the interviewer was so i dont know what .she looked younger than me and a lot more nervous, after i gave my interview i feeled like complaining to PWC that who was taking the interview me or her but then i thought that it may backfire…but well no use next day i got rejection.
once i applied job at2:14 am at night and got rejection letter at 7:15 am like 5 hours at night to dusk time..i think these recruiters have some kind of software which just rejects jobs seekers by matching their old resumes
I am very disappointed and nervous after reading the comments. I am joining Melbourne Business School in Jan 2008.
I have 5 years exp in IT, india+germany. have a big brand name on my resume. So i was hoping that after finishing my MBA, i will get a good job in Australia.
But i dont know what to do now. should i not join MBS? any experiences about the school in particular. or about the job market for fresh MBAs?
This place is A JOKE! Having 12 yrs worth of banking experience in financial markets such as New York and London, I have never experienced such ridiculous requirements for entry into banking roles. Not only that but the work hours are absolutely humorous based on the level of pay you get here. You work like a dog and your hopes of one day buying a home are slim to nothing…Guess they leave this kind of stuff out of the brochures.
It seems to me that all of us who are either migrants or returning with international experience are facing the same predicament. Is there a way we can help ourselves? Get this story to “today tonite” or sign some petition or discuss with Centrelink or something? Coz no point for us to continue winging if we can never address it and there will continue to be more victims in the same predicament.
Australia is a great country to live in, with medicare, fairly good living conditions and education. However, the job markets is just so myopic! And we need to address this. Anyone has suggestions?
Nothing changes…..this was similar in 1988 when I migrated here. However Someone out there will see your inner qualities and then your doors will open. Chin up and all the best.
I am fully agreed with all the above comment, i hold a chartered accounting degree from India and i also hold a CMA degree from Australia and in India I have been in the field of Accounting and Finance for the last sixteen years.
I know every aspect of accounting, but still i am not able to find a job in Australia even after applying for at least 200 jobs and that for various positions from accounting clerk to Graduate Accountant. So its really reflects the norrow mind of Australian employers while accepting international qualification.
The majority of people that I place in finance roles, have limited or no local experience, and only match 50% of the client’s job spec. It’s all about who you’re targeting. Everyone wants to work for a global investment bank, so competition for roles is fierce. Try looking at other businesses. And when you tell your recruiter that you’ll be “flexible”, make sure you mean it. If you turn down an offer and give a lame reason for doing so, it’s unlikely they’ll want to represent you again.
If you’re not happy with a recruiter or they’re not doing anything for you – find someone else. There’s plenty to choose from!
And be creative. Registering with an agency and then sitting back to see if they’ll call you, is NOT job-hunting. That’s just laziness.
MY THIS COMMENT DEDICATED TO Apurv Bhalla, Accounting commented on Fri 01 Jun 07 and Pankaj, Accounting commented on Wed 06 Jun 07.
I have a 2 years of assistant level accounting experience in india, which was followed by my B.Com., which completed from very low level university named “Gujarat University”, Gujarat. At the moment studying towards masters of accounting in CQU, australia and already worked for 2 australian companies as an accountant and there are couple of companies who are ready to give me job on the completion of my accounting degree. this is not a joke. i am getting ‘special’ e-mails from recruitment agencies for job vacancies. during 3rd semester, my application was on hold for about 1 month, the “payroll officer” position job description was, payroll for 2500 employees in a single entity, unfortunately i lost it.
HAVING very little experience i am wondering why are you guys are not getting job in australia. in fact i was very frustrated when i didn’t get the accounting job during my 1st semester of degree.
thanx
vish panchal
As mentioned above, we are paid by our clients to find them what they want – they do not want to be challenged! A combination of local experience, good academics, not changing jobs too often, a clear career path, etc, will just about tick all of the boxes – I think the younger generation in particular need to know these things or else they will be unemployable in several years time.
Hello
I am trying to get a graduate position in accounting and I am having a lot of trouble. I am an Australian citizen, just wondering if anyone else is having a similar experience.
I absolutely agree with all the comments above. Since coming to Melbourne I have found finding THE job extremely difficult, tiring and very frustrating. My experience with recruiters is that a lot of promises will be made, but nothing is delivered. Coming from Europe and with over 9 years of experience in Marketing, fluent in 5 languages I had trouble landing a job, any job for the first few months. While in Europe I didnt have a problem, I never attended an interview, I was lucky to always been headhunted.
Before embarking on my big adventure, I did my research – read lots and lots articles, subscribed to forums and tried to set up a network before I came here. My experience is that recruiters, colleagues and even employers might be envious or even intimidated by international experience and I have been advised to play it down. All I can say is that you have to keep on going, keep on emailing, writing and meeting people.
p.s Sinatra’s song should be changed ‘ Melbourne, Melbourne, if you can make it there, you’ll make it anywhere’.
Dear All,
Please do not lose heart. Continue to persevere. This is a great country with good facilities to live in. As highlighted by one of the contributors, keep trying coz once the door opens, it will be worth it. Also, do not mind taking a step down coz if u are good, it will just be a temporary set back.
About recruiters, no offence to them but try going into the Bank or potential website instead because after seeing many recruiters, i was really dissapointed at the non results and when i applied directly, I got the job! So, dont give up!
Also, to the guy who suggested Today tonite, i think its a good idea. Please explore especially all those who are still looking. Group together and share the experiences with today tonite. See what can be done especially with election coming up!
My comment relats to Apurv’s complaint about the PwC interview. On reading his note, I now know why PwC would have rejected him. If he could make those many grammatical errors in a two-para note, I can not imagine how he would have come across in an interview.
Working for a Big 4 myself and having conducted numerous interviews over the last few years, I must say that communication skills is one of the most basic attributes that the Big 4 look for. Maybe an English speaking/ writing course may help.
And I thought it was just me :) Any established professionals coming to Sydney from London should be really clear that it’s a lifestyle move first and foremost – it’s a parochial market and odds on your career will suffer if your standards are high or if you not particularly well connected. Think very carefully before you jack it in just because the weather’s better here – you can always come out for a holiday on your lovely London pounds.
The Australian finance market is 10 years behind the rest of the world in sophistication and a veritable steaming cauldron of politics and back-stabbing. I have found to my regret it’s very much WHO you know, rather than WHAT you know. I was hunted from a great job back in the real world and will now be leaving this backwater as soon as I can, back to the real world. What a disappointment.
These comments ring too true. I worked in London for over 7years at various VP/Assoc Directors level.
After being back 1 year in Sydney it took me a solid 3 months to get a job – I had to accept a 40% pay cut & to drop 5 rungs back in the ladder as their simply are not the same level of jobs back in Australia as compared to that of NY,London or even Singapore.
The local Banks are run by 50 year old plus ex GPS School who are INCREDIBLY scared of overseas experince, thinking outside the box and simply years behind in the banking industry – about 5 years so far I can work out-
This notion of lack of local skills- and the banks are crying out for expats to return ‘to the lcuky country’ is just not true- the reality is stay in London, NY etc until we grow up and change our way of thinking
I can’t believe you guys are complaining. Do you wonder why there is a brain drain in the first place? Its because Australia is a small crappy market with an inflated view of its own importance. Yes, the education system is good, and there are many wonderful things about Australian culture. But people – its not and never will be a major world financial centre! Thats why the pay is crap.
Last week I heard that the NSW government wanted to make Sydney the financial centre of Asia Pacific. I find it to be the Mother joke of all jokes!! Here in Australia we don’t value international experience and most of the local staff don’t have much foreign experience. How can this country become a financial giant when most of the time exployers and recruiters talk about the need for local experience in recruiting new staff ?!. Don’t even mention about the poor infrastructure and primitive public transport system in Sydney.
Compare Sydney to HK or Singapore – these 2 cities have great public transport systems, their people are more mobile / internationalised and they are already years ahead of Sydney.
HELLO Sydney, please wake up and come to your senses, you have been dreaming for too long. Change your mindset before you have any grand international idea again !!
I wonder if all of those who compained about how “backward” and “unsophisticated” Australian banks are, still think the same in 2009 ?
At least they are all still in business, while all those sophisticated US and European banks are all being nationalised………….