NL
If you left university and achieved a position in investment banking, you were probably towards the top of your class. You are probably highly driven. You are probably accustomed to the company of similar individuals and to the notion that non-performers are akin to four legged animals. Outside banking, unfortunately, none of this will do you any favours.
“Bankers tend only to have only worked in a professional services environment in which everyone is a graduate and everyone is highly focused,” says one senior headhunter working in the corporate sector. “In industry it’s very different – you are working with a lot of people from very varied backgrounds and it’s much more about managing than doing.
“People in the City are very good practitioners, but not very good managers,” he adds.
As a result, it appears that highly qualified M&A bankers, who should find it easiest to move into corporates, are often shunned due to the absence of anything else on their CVs.
Recruiters say the worst hit are typically vice presidents who are expensive for banks to hold on to and too long in the tooth to retrain in other sectors.
Do you agree? Is banking a solid foundation for launching yourself into another field? Or is it tantamount to building a career on a swamp? Feel encouraged to comment below.
As I’m finding out, my dubious skills of going to meetings and spreadsheetery appear to be out of favour.
I am begnning to wish that I never squandered my life by going into investment banking. When I left uni I was a highly desirable (highly attractive) straight A student. I now find that I am utterly unemployable and would have been better off as a teacher.
“Highly intelligent”? Perhaps so, but not more than the average worker in many other sectors, especially the ones which bankers would consider converting to.
not even worth going to corporate world for ex-bankers. never seen any single guy happy in making the move, cultural shock too big…
you said “intelligent / highly driven / success focus / energetic…” if you got these attributes, just set up your own buz instead of lowering your standards and massaging inferior personalities in corporate world…
Time for the real challenge…and rewards…
This situation will put an end to the arrogance of the very best Oxbridge.
I didn’t go to university, but started a banking career while finishing high school. I stayed in the industry for 28 years. I recently landed a teriffic job with a Private Investigations firm where I perform Asset and Financial Investigations for lender clients who are in the “pre and post default judgment” stage and want to know their borrower’s true assets before entering into a settlement agreement. It gives me some diversity, and I finally have a job that interests me again. In addition, I get to take on “non-financial” cases from time to time. No more dull hum-drums for me…I’m out catching bad guys!!!!!
Dear former bankers wonkers,
There was nothing special about you when you were banking, and there is nothing special about you now.
The only difference is that you had the prestige of your Lords(Goldman, Merrill, Morgan) to boost your egos.
Today, you will learn that being efficiently obedient is not enough. You actually have got to produce added value.Good luck flipping burgers
“Highly intelligent”? Perhaps so, but not more than the average worker in many other sectors, especially the ones which bankers would consider converting to.
Maybe not more intelligent. But on average, probably harder working and with a better academic record. Note use of word average.
Mayatomi – informed comment. Failed to get in, or didn’t bother applying?
I’m working in industry after banking, and the challenges are more of trying to contain yourself from outbursts of boredom than anything else. The pace is SO slow, and sorry, but the way this company is run is anything but efficient. If the “real” world were run with the efficiency and ruthlessness that banks were run, we’d have much more productive industry
or crisis all over other industries dear Jamie Kidd!!!
If all of you were sooo intelligent, how come we all ended up paying what you have done wrong????!!!!!!
It seems that focused top achievers may have it difficult also in banking these days. I happened to work in Structured Investment Team of well known German LandesBank based in Mansion House who employed uneducated receptionist in ABS Portfolio Manager role. I dont think she will ever get redundant – who you know it is more important than your skills and experience!
Patience!!! After an experience in investment banking, I worked for the industry. I confirm that manager competencies are much more useful than performance culture in this sector. The performance is not objective of all, and during my experience, relational qualities were necessary, with a lot, lot, lot of patience, in spite of productive attitude. Patience!!!!!
…Maybe a blot on your life though.
It is really embarrassing to read/see/hear bankers, after all this mess we have created, still can’t stop being so highly impressed about their own superiority in terms of being ‘hard workers’ and ‘highly intelligent’.
I’ve worked in i-banking, consulting, industry and have certainly not noted any of this superior qualities more visible in i-banking than in other sectors/industries on the scale it could generalised as done here, often just accepted as a fact by, eh, ourselves. It is painfully embarrassing. If i-bankers on such general level are so much better a bit more learning capacity and flexibility/agility should be expected.
The ‘quality’ where I have seen i-bankers actually stand out is the in general really poor leadership and management skills. That annoying people factor is not always so well understood by all these ‘highly intelligent’ (former) bankers.
Pathetic! If you don’t have visibility outside your narrow field of business life, as most bankers do, perhaps it is wiser, and even intelligent, not to make such comparative/relative statement of ones superiority over other professionals.
Well, we are where we are for a reason. Can only hope for a cleansing
Oh dear, such a lot of arrogant self noshing here. Did you ever consider that some highly intelligent people might not be excited by the prospect of your office job?
You do need to be intelligent and hardworking to be a success in an investment bank, but that doesn’t mean that anyone who works for one fits that description, or anyone who doesn’t work in investment bank couldn’t.
Do banks make all their best people redundant at times like these or those who, maybe, are replaceable? Be a bit more honest with yourselves, it might make the “cultural shock” a bit easier to live with. If you work with people less motivated than yourselves, try showing a bit of leadership, instead of banging on about how much you deserve for getting a 2:1.
OK – I’m sold! Can’t wait to leave my Wall Street job for something that requires patience and ‘relational qualities’…
FYI, investment bankers do not refer to themselves as ‘i-bankers’, it’s an outsider’s lingo. if you guys want to make up stories about how you worked in investment banking (so that you can trash bankers more effectively) pls use the correct term. Thx
Jamie, I guess it is too late in the day for and your ilk’s to now begin to lecture us all about efficiency and productivity.
I cannot believe that with all the abounding evidence of poor judgement, greed and loses made by the banks – that you still consider that to be “productive and efficient”
I suspect you’ve spent far too long in this illusionary world of banking and now you’ve suddenly found yourself trying to find your feet in the real world. Welcome to reality and stop moaning. Get on with it now!!!
Mayatomi and Tamara – if you hate investment banking and bankers so much, then why are you on this website??
Were you looking for a job and became bitter as a result of your lack of success?
true, IBK’ers are very protected from the real world and have to adapt to a different environment in the industry. They also have to accept to go through the middle management career path, I have example of former colleagues who to a corporate’s M&A team, but their next job in the group was… controller in a subsidiary. Quite a logical step but hard to swallow after focusing on being master of universe for a few years. On the other hand it can lead to good, but slow, careers…
With about 20 years head hunting bankers I have to agree the average banker is highly educated and knew what they wanted. I think it is greed and a lack of foresight that has gotten us to where we are. This is worsened by those who have too much personal debt and cant ride out the storm. For the millions who are out of work and dont have sufficient funds there are millions who feel for your situation. But things will turn around, the majority will find new careers eventually. For those who slander bankers, bear in mind your fate is not cut in stone, compassion and a willingness to extend a hand is needed at this time, we are where we are.
good one MA.
Tamara: that s exactly because we are so intelligent that we made other people pay for our mistakes… wasn t a particularly good point you made…
Tamara: that s exactly because we are so intelligent that we made other people pay for our mistakes… wasn t a particularly good point you made…
Bit harsh, what about all the younger ones (like me) just getting onto the train – we haven’t built up the bonuses yet and will get stung first in the cuts. The whole thing ended up being a pyramid scheme which isn’t really very clever after all.. Ahh, at least I still have my looks…
My heart truly bleeds for the greedy toffs who decided to make mummy and daddy proud by applying their dilligence and substantially manicured intellectual egos to getting overpaid and overworked as vacuous drones in the many penis-shaped buildings of East London.
Amazingly as it may seem to them, some people do valuable things with their capabilities, live modest lives, and are both intellectually and morally content. Gosh.
I find this whole banking sector lynching repulsive and has convinced me that we are all HYPOCRITS. Lets look at this objectively. Banks were indeed the root of the problem by taking on more risks then they should have but, indirectly those who are pointing the finger have all benefitted. To the store clerk who KNEW he wasnt worth the mortgage he was getting but signed and then bragged about it and how he OUTSMARTED the bank. The advisor who assisted in the application because he got a fee. The insurance company who happily insured it all. The Tax Office who didnt mind collecting taxes on all the assets and bonuses. Funny no one ever got a letter that read : He you are paying too much tax, you are getting too much bonuses. The mgt boards that gave heads of department unrealistic goals.The regulators who didnt regulate and the rating agencies that collected 7 figure fees and now are looking the other way. The store owner who didnt mind when the bank boys/gals spent their money. No one complained about bonuses being to high then. What everyone is failing to realise is that EVERYONE benifitted. I did my job with honour worked hard got paid and in effect so did everyone else.
Hate to point this out Armstrong, but you spell like a dog.
@Armstrong. Very true. Everyone is complicit to varying degrees. Two to tango etc but doesn’t change the fact that most M&A is money for old rope and all valued created by it in the last 25 years was essentially wiped out in one.
@Scoot. Pyramid scheme is remarkably apt. If you include unpaid overtime put in by analysts and associates compared with the comp of MDs it would make a fun chart.
Of course the biggest pyramid scheme is the UK itself. Ask any actuary, not enough people coming in at the bottom to feed the well feed top. Demographics will destroy us. Don’t bet on your public sector pension.
lol at all the toffs comments. More true in some houses (read English) than others but my experience of corporate finance was its full of Europeans. A few Oxbridge types (3 out of 60 at my bulge bracket bank, and I think I was the only state schooler) but overwhelmingly Europeans and a few Americans, all from business school (I was the only Physicist in the team). And on the markets side backgrounds are much more varied again.
As for what next, if you want money, good luck; in a deflationary environment for the foreseeable future this may be rather challenging to achieve. However, if you want a challenge you can always put your intellect to good use and do a PhD or move into the law. Challenging but then life is never easy. If the axe happens to me (odds are it will sooner or later given the scale of this depression) then I suspect the PhD/barristry route is the way I will go; I could never be a school teacher despite all the perks, and academia is hugely challenging if not financially rewarding.
I finished my PhD in theoretical physics and when I was finally at the stage to apply for jobs in finance, the crisis was taking its toll already. Luckily enough, months ago I predicted that could happen and applied for academic jobs, as well. I got a fantastic response from a leading institute and did not want to wait for calls from HHs in a time there are thousands of job cuts each day. I am now working in a team that makes the future’s science. Academic world may not be financially rewarding but there is no limit to the things you can learn and do, the software you can develop, or the technology you can invent. In a crisis time, I’d suggest you go for it.
hi people, i used to work in the banking sector from which i voluntarily resigned from as i felt i had reached a deade end, solace you say former bankers shouldnt lower their standards by going to other industries, and that they should set up their own buz, see i still smell the banker arrogance in that remark. I am a business woman at the moment and out of experience many of the former bankers will need to be humble to take up any job on offer to save capital to start a business
hey any banker who is still arrogant to say they are superior to other employees are living in cuckoo land. The way the finance industry has turned out bankers are the last people to bang on about how intelligent they are
what the hell are people who are so anti-banking doing on this website?!?!?!?!?
am i going out of my mind here, or is all the bashing emanating from back-office types, accountants or simply kids who failed to catch the gravy train before it left the station?
I think i might start trawling the pages of vogue.com to criticise the world of fashion, or perhaps tell everyone at waterstones.com that i hate books and authors have ruined the world with their self-confidence and egos and linguistic prowess.
about 90% of the comments on this article really do show what a bunch of nuts this country consists of… hiding behind their computer screens and berating finance types on a financial jobs website (!!).
I dont think it does one any good realy
perhaps the anti-banking people come to this website for a good laugh?
I can see from the web-site that now evey banker has become the worst possible thing on the planet, the “guilty ones”,like every bankers is responsible for the 10 year lending-borrowing game? Like every banker is responsible for the population’s decision to borrow and borrow and keep borrowing for the house, the new car, the new phone, the holiday in the sun etc etc?? No one deny the big responsability of the greed and very short sided approach of senior managment in the financial world (not only banks…remember regulators, governments etc…) but thousand of good and bright people who never got close to the famous millions dollars bonuses of CEOs, are suffering the crisis like evryone else. I found it very limited thinking to describe “the bankers” as the “bad guys full of themself and arrogant”. None was complaining with them when was possible to get enormous mortgages compared to the borrowers income levels… or when shops and restaurants were opening everywhere and life was easy…. isnt’it. Well, is time to pay the bill; for everyone. But to start to solve this crisis with empty comments about ” the bad bankers” unable to work in the real world is meaningless.
@areggiani 47 mins ago
I couldnt agree more, hence my comment yesterday.
pat yesterday, let’s face reality: we’ve been living through a huge finance boom this last decade where best talents across countries were lining up behind the door to have chance of making quick bucks…
the industry attracted best brains as other industries did in the past, and others will likely do in the future…
There is no arrogance saying most bankers (there are obviously exceptions) were smart, well educated and very driven people, this is a fact!!
Also, i don’t get the anger of street people who have been buying homes with 100% loan and living on 5 credit cards against ibankers… wake up we’re in this mess because a purge of excessive debt was unavoidable at some stage…
too easy to blame ibanks!!!
Having been there , done that, I can only second the motion. Bankers, and I was one of them, live in an ethereal world. Since then, having spent quite a few years in the “real” world I have come to the conclusion that bankers are the best addition to the real world. Only if they are ready to fight and get their hands dirty, then their skills are an absolute necessity.
Just because the real world is so retarded!
We all had a piece in this thing and let’s all pay the price. If you missed it you are not as ‘intelligent’ as bankers. It’s time to settle the bill. In 2 years time, bankers ‘will be wise again’.
I still see a lot of the bankers’ quality reflecting on the comments here, ‘when things go well, be proud of it, take all the credit, when things fail, find someone else to put blame on’. That’s called primitive bankers’ skill.
‘when putting the blame on someone else, reason it and argue like an uncivilized gangster ‘ , that’s called executive skill!
i agree with it. bqz banking sector is a plate form to introuduce yourself to different industries and get knowledge about different’s organizational structure.
How about you learn something useful ?
GB has nothing left to sell not even financial services
And north sea oil is drying up
I suggest you consider emigrating – but pls not Canada cause we already have too many brits here
Cheers !